Today I read a very interesting thread on the official Blizzard forums about details about the quests for WoW’s first hero class: the Deathknight. Orophino points out that in order to become free of the influence of the Lich King and enter the outside world, the player must complete quests that involve the following:
- the murder of innocent people who don’t fight back
- torture of innocent people to extract information
- murdering an unarmed friend
The poster makes an excellent point that brings up many good questions. This is the first class in WoW that requires you to complete quests before you can enter the uninstanced world at large and start leveling up your character. What is troubling here is that the player must follow a fixed “story”. He must go through all of the motions and play the part of a bloodthirsty, ruthless, psychopathic murderer.
Here’s the full text of the post:
I don’t want to give out all the cool parts of the death knight starting area. But at the same time I think people need to be aware of something.
Unless the quests change radically, I won’t be rolling a death knight in the expansion.
The problem is that the quests are unambiguously evil. And you have no option to make moral choices. What I’m talking about here isn’t the usual Warcraft. You are forced to steal, murder, and torture, and it is presented as such. The quest text goes out of its way to make sure you don’t misunderstand what’s going on.
There were several quests last night in beta where I almost decided not to continue. Specifically
– The quest where I am forced to murder civilians who don’t fight back.
– The quest where I am forced to torture people to extract information.
– The quest where I am forced to murder my unarmed friend.I understand that it’s called World of *Warcraft*. And I understand that for the last 3.5 years I’ve been slaughtering creatures who did nothing other than carry loot I wanted. But this seems to have been designed with the sole intent of making sure I’m evil. Well……. I’m not evil. If the bridge will explode if I don’t torture someone, then the bridge will explode. If the mission fails because I won’t murder civilians who don’t fight back, then the mission will fail.
The problem with the current DK quests is that I’m not given that choice. If you want a death knight you *must* murder and torture people, and it will be presented as murder and torture. Thus, I won’t be rolling a death knight unless some serious changes are made.
Forcing a player to perform actions that are morally questionable is wrong. No player should be forced to role-play an evil character in order to progress with their class. When the element of choice is taken away the players is no longer in control of their avatar: that is not role-playing, that is acting.
Community Rep To the Rescue
Then new Blizzard community rep named Zarhym weighs in, naturally with an opinion that is totally supportive of Blizzard:
…The idea is not to roll a Death Knight and immediately have the ability to choose what kind of work you do in the world. When first entering the world you quickly find you are a slave to the will of the Lich King. You do his bidding because the good in you has been nullified by his powers. It isn’t until the story further unfolds that you are able to escape the grasp of the Lich King and defect to the Alliance or Horde.
Selling the Hero Class to Prop Up the Expansion
The problem here is that in their eagerness to *sell* the expansion and the so-called “hero class” concept they have pulled out all of the stops to make this new class seem special. Now it’s not enough to be a hero class — now you need a back story as well complete with special quests, unique instanced content and more. It’s like they are trying too hard to sell this. This sets up an onerous precedent for future hero classes. Will the next hero class be forced to do good acts before he is let loose on the world?
My problem here is that the player has no control over the story; instead he just follows merrily along. It’s like being on a ride at an amusement park. This is not a single-player game where you become the character and advance through the storyline — this is an MMO where you are supposed to have choices. For the first time Blizzard is asking players to make a moral choice before deciding to play one of their classes. Am I evil? If yes then go ahead and enjoy the Deathknight. Am I good? Sorry the Deathknight is not for you. This is very dangerous ground to tread on.
It’s one thing if a MMO is designed from the ground up to allow players to choose to role-play a moral alignment. It’s another thing altogether to introduce a moral requirement for new classes. What Blizzard is doing here feels bizarre, disconnected and disjointed.
It’s no secret that I’m one of the biggest critic of WoW’s hero classes. I think this fiasco is just another troubling element of a misguided and unhinged concept. Besides, what kind of “hero” tortures and murders helpless people?
The community rep continues on:
A Death Knight carries a certain weight of darkness, and if one chooses to play a Death Knight one will see how this weight propagates the story line through which this Hero Class is introduced in Wrath of the Lich King. If one has initial qualms with the morality of the class and how the playable races of the Horde and Alliance are vulnerable to the bidding of the Lich King, one should perhaps not play a Death Knight. Their introduction ultimately does set the tone though for the dark power of the Scourge in the next expansion.
So according to Blizzard it’s official: if you happen to have any qualms about torturing and murdering innocent and defenseless people then DON’T PLAY A DEATHKNIGHT. That kind of logic is unacceptable and smacks of arrogance. Only evil heroes need apply it seems. I find this a real cop out on the part of Blizzard. Notice too that this is the first time that this “feature” of the Deathknight class has been ever publicized and the idea of “darkness” (read: evil) has been conveniently absent from the official Wrath of the Lich King website information.
It’s Not About Morality, It’s About Choice
This is not an issue of one morality vs another morality. This is an issue of removing the ability for the player to choose his own path and story. Part of the power of MMO’s is they give players the ability to play their classes as they wish. A player determines for himself by his deeds and actions whether he is good, neutral or evil. In this case Blizzard has made a cardinal error by forcing one particular moral code on the unsuspecting player. At least in a single-player game like Fable you always had a choice to follow either the path of good or evil.
Not only that, for the first time Blizzard is literally forcing the player to role-play via the quests. This is very hypocritical when you consider the lack of support for role-players on role-play servers. For Blizzard, RP is great when it’s convenient and when it helps them to sell their expansion. Priceless.
Shame on the unimaginative Blizzard writers for requiring players to play an evil character — even if it is for a series of quests. It’s too bad that they don’t have the ability to devise a story that gives the player a choice of how to progress with the Deathknight class. In a previous article I lamented the fact that on the new Sunwell Isle that the Shattered Sun offensive wants us to kill the blood elf magic junkies instead of helping them with their addiction. It’s this kind of kill-centric type of mentality that is really starting to make MMO’s one-dimensional and antiquated.
Conclusion
The real issue here is the lack of judgment on the part of Blizzard’s management team. Who green lighted these quests and approach? I sense this story is going to get bigger as time goes on as more people in the public realize that we have a video game company marketing an MMO primarily at children and teenagers that involves forcing the torture and murder of innocent people in order to play a particular class. This has the potential to be a public relations nightmare for Blizzard. What the heck were they thinking?
Blizzard go back to the drawing board and fix this mess.
-Wolfshead
I agree that Blizzard half-assed the so called “Hero Class”.
I agree that there is nothing heroic about it since anyone can just make one.
I also agree that Blizzard took the easy way out with a very linear and featureless quest system. Point A, point B, point C.
However this is how Blizzard tells stories. Diablo 2, Warcraft 2, Starcraft, they were all very linear in their story telling approach.
Many people believe, including myself, that they are very good at telling stories this way and it makes their games quite enjoyable.
I disagree with you that Blizzard should re-think these starter quests. Blizzard has a story they want to tell.
I am against any creative body toning down creative content in order to appeal to everyone.
As disgusted as you may be with the virtual torture quests… as appalled as you may be at the killing of unarmed civilians, there will be a lot more people for whom this will not be a problem. Who will enjoy experiencing the storyline.
Blizzard is free to put whatever they wish in the game.
The ESRB and other rating boards are free to give the game a higher rating because of the content.
As you are free to either not play the Death Knight, or vote with your wallet and not even purchase Wrath of the Lich King at all.
I do appreciate your blog post though, when someone finds something offensive or wrong, the community as a whole benefits from active discussion and debate on the issue.
That sounds quite awful and to be perfectly honest I probably would NOT play a Death Knight at all if this current path doesn’t change (or offer an alternative).
I think it would also help if they stop calling the DK a ‘hero class’. Just starting at level 55 doesn’t make a character heroic.
I can certainly appreciate a reluctance to take part in the virtual murder and torture of innocent people, obviously. However, while I don’t necessarily mean to defend the Death Knight class, what I’ve read in your article seems to follow the lore behind the class fairly well.
What is a Death Knight? Straight from Blizzard: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/wrath/features/deathknight/lore.xml – “death knights consist mainly of paladins who lost their faith and pledged their souls to the Lich King in exchange for the promise of immortality. Death knights who fall in battle are soon raised again to continue in their master’s service.”
“In the years since Arthas shattered the Frozen Throne and merged with the Lich King, the power and fury of the death knights has only grown. Now these unrelenting crusaders of the damned eagerly await the Lich King’s command to unleash their fury on Azeroth once again.”
Who is the Lich King? In short, a very, very, bad guy. From Wowwiki: “The Lich King possesses untold power and an endless hatred for the living. The dwarven explorer, Brann Bronzebeard, has speculated that it is only a matter of time before the Lich King seeks to destroy or dominate all sapient life on Azeroth – not just the Alliance and Horde, but also the dragons and perhaps the titans themselves. ”
Key themes: “pledged their souls to the Lich King”, “continue in their master’s service”, “unrelenting crusader’s of the damned”, “unleash their fury on Azeroth”, “endless hatred for the living”, “seeks to destroy or dominate all sapient life”.
I would think, once you become familiar with the lore and realize that Death Knights are servants to the Lich King, an entity with a hatred for the living, doing unspeakable acts would be par for the course. The fact that at the beginning you’re not given a choice to do so just reflects the very nature of that servitude. The Lich King controls the Death Knights, they have no free will. I’m not in the beta so I have no idea, but I would suspect when it comes time to “enter the world”, it will be symbolic of you breaking free of the Lich Kings control, and at that point, you’ll be free to roleplay the character as you see fit.
Furthermore, let’s not forget about Arthas, the first “modern” Death Knight, and what he did to his own people. Just look at the name of the class: Death Knight. Death. I’m not sure what else you’d be expecting. I personally probably won’t be playing the class, but I actually applaud Blizzard with the direction they’ve taken it, if it’s as described above. Death Knights aren’t nice people, and they don’t have free will.
I’ve been reading the original thread and what’s really been troubling me is the repugnant nature of the people posting in response to the original posters concerns. Sadly there are some very twisted and sick people out there that are indignant that anyone would dare to complain about the moral ramifications about torturing and murdering innocent people.
Interestingly enough, both the Blizzard community rep (Zarhym) and the MVP’s (Faizaniel and Crepe) who posted their thoughts on the issue are strangely silent when it comes to the majority of people who have used personal attacks, profane language against the original poster. (Note: it’s comical how we see two sycophantic MVP’s come in and give their opinion that supports Blizzard).
For some reason, some people don’t like to be reminded that the idea of personal morality exists in this modern day and age. The fact that someone would even contemplate this seems to be an affront to them and I suspect makes them feel ill at ease because of their own guilt at leading amoral lifestyles. Yet Blizzard here is the party responsible for injecting morality (good vs evil) into the equation. The original poster should not be blamed for asking these questions and sharing his/her perspective.
Here’s a very good analysis by Animagis from the official forums of what this thread has revealed as to the character of the people who have responded:
I couldn’t have said it better myself.
“Death Knights aren’t nice people, and they don’t have free will.”
Then perhaps they shouldn’t be hailed as “heroes”. The core of “heroism” is making choices, and correct ones at that. Villains make choices, too; bad ones. Perhaps the Death Knights are mere puppets, but making a player into a puppet, especially in a game marketed on “what’s your game” sort of choice, is stepping over the line of good design, as well as moral lines.
At the same time, we have the WCIII missions where you “control” Arthas in his initial corruption. Then you take control over the Undead. (Add earlier, the Zerg.) The Death Knight here is consistent with the lore of Warcraft, but making them playable characters isn’t the smartest decision.
If the point is to make them some sort of Fallen knight on the road to redemption (or just independence), tell the backstory in the same way that the Undead get theirs.
So yes, the Death Knight is an organic growth from the existing lore, but some growths are cancerous, and are unwise to encourage.
David you’ve made some excellent points. My problem is that that player is not given a choice here. The story is literally imposed on the player that wishes to roll a Deathknight hero class. No other class selection in WoW ever imposes a story, history or moral alignment on the player. The player must role-play and play the Deathknight as if he truly is evil.
Also the notion that the player is in “servitude” to the Death Knight is a bit far fetched. Someone who is a slave has no control over their lives. Yet the player does have control while they are playing this hero class. Blizzard is making players go through the motions and do all these evil deeds. In most MMO’s players create their own history and stories by making choices. Here there is no choice and that to me illustrates the deficiency of today’s MMO’s like WoW.
I also doubt that Blizzard will introduce some kind of punishment for players who chose Deathknights because of the promise of power and immortality. I’d like to see Deathknights brought to justice and sentenced for their crimes against humanity and genocide with some kind of in-game event that leads to imprisonment and banishment from all public places including banks, auction houses and vendors. To me this would demonstrate to the players a true sense of accountability for choosing the easy way of the dark side.
Of course Blizzard does not have the courage to do this. We know full well that they will not require any form of sacrifice for players choosing Deathknights. Instead they will get to roam the lands with the title of “hero” with all of this negative power at their disposal completely exonerated from any accountability.
Thanks for your comments Robert. I agree with you. Blizzard is great at telling stories. This works great for single-player video games but for me MMO’s are about players creating their own history and stories. To me this is a mistake that infringes upon the uniqueness character and personality of the player.
How can Blizzard be so presumptuous to tell a player about *their* story? To me this is a problematic intrusion on the part of Blizzard. Sure Blizzard are amazing story-tellers but there is a time and place for it. This smacks of social engineering when the Blizzard writers (Metzen no doubt) can presume a moral disposition on a player.
Normally killing in video games has some kind of purpose attached to it. Good guys chase the bad guys etc. In this case I believe Blizzard has crossed over the line and created a very repugnant story line that requires the player commit acts of unspeakable evil.
Many in Blizzard’s defense are suggesting that they are trying to illustrate to players that these acts are despicable and evil. In the real world we don’t educate people on good behavior by letting them commit acts of violence and murder. Why then does Blizzard feel that they have to let the player controlled Deathknight engage in these very acts? Do people need to commit torture and murder before they can understand that it’s wrong?
With these Deathknight quests Blizzard leaves the player with no choice but to play out the storyline. It’s unfortunate that Blizzard has failed to give players some kind of choice here.
On a personal note, I designed many zones for a big budget upcoming video game to be released later this year. My objective was to give players a choice on how to solve problems. In most cases I provided an alternative to killing in order to achieve the same objective. I also made the player accountable for his/her actions. I got many great comments and support from our dev team for what I accomplished which was one of the most gratifying experiences I’ve had working in the industry.
All I am asking for is that MMO’s evolve to the point where players can have more choices instead of riding the rails on a pre-determined “golden path”. Hopefully Blizzard or some other company will take up the challenge.
Agreed. I just can’t reconcile the idea that you are “under the control of the Lich King” but at the same time controlling your avatar. It’s dubious at best and it seems that Blizzard is desperate to shoehorn the Deathknight hero class into the lore.
Good points. Another problem is Blizzard is setting a precedent for future hero classes. The next hero class will have to have a deep connection to the lore of the next expansion, probably some kind of more predisposition as well, add to that custom starting area/instance and all the rest of the goodies. I could write a whole article on predictions for the next hero class. 🙂
Exactly! The Forsaken are on a path of rediscovery and redemption. I actually played undead characters in the Friends & Family alpha and enjoyed the story. Why can’t Blizzard do this with the Deathknight hero class?
On a side note, one of the persistent role-play characters I created for the EverQuest Guide Program was a fallen knight trying to redeem himself. I created a deep backstory and history for the GM or Guide to use when RPing this character. My character had committed some evil deeds and had been cut off from the power of Prexus (the ocean deity). It is possible to create morally complex characters that deepen and enrich virtual worlds without having to resort to what Blizzard is doing with the Deathknight.
I agree completely. What Blizzard is doing here is venturing needlessly into dangerous territory. For a company that is always trying to broaden their subscriber demographic I’m a bit puzzled that they didn’t handle the implementation of the Deathknight hero class lore with more common sense.
You’d think that the design team must have thought long and hard about this particular way of implementation, especially if they’ve never done anything like this before. You’d imagine there would have been heated discussions about the pros and cons of doing it this way. So now it’s in beta. They could always tone it down or throw it out completely before release.
But, and this alleges unsavoury intent on the decision makers part, the way they did it so far has great potential to create huge amounts of controversy and thus buzz on the forums and in the blogosphere (sic!). They can feel AoC and especially WAR breathing down their collective neck, so nothing wrong with a little hot potato to help getting WotLK in the news, eh? Just hope it doesn’t backfire…
If they’re really aiming to “broaden their subscriber demographic”, as Wolfshead suggests, what kind of demographic did they have in mind while designing this? Adolescents, who might be led to thinking that playing a mindless pawn of evil that gets to torture, murder and pillage in a video game is “cool”? Naw, they’ve already got millions of those, but maybe the devs just want to give them one more reason to stay. If a Chosen of Tzeentch looks bad-ass in every way, a Death Knight can’t afford to look like a wimp…
Anyway, thank you Wolfshead for bringing this up.
I understand what people are saying about how it is a choice thing, but players never had choice in the first place.
– If you want to level, you must do quests – No choice there.
– If you want to partake in particular fights and content then a player must spec a certain way, or that player will not be brought into a raid.
– Players are forced to stick to Alliance or Horde, never allowing for a player to switch sides on the toon they are playing if they so well choose.
As for the Blizzard promoting torture and murder, and you have no choice in the matter in order to play the class, well it just falls within the realm of what society as a whole has seemed to have found as acceptable. Their is no capacity of choice in any MMO. Their is the belief that one is allowed the idea of free will, but in the end it is just another curtain pulled over your eyes. I can choose all I want to try and maintain a peaceful resolve against the opposite faction, but if I approach an opposing city, then I will be surely get beaten down, forcing me to be involved in a scripted set of rules and regulations.
In the Outland I can be either Scryer or Aldor, why not be able to finally group with the opposing faction if the storyline has changed and I am now working side by side with those who were once considered enemies.
Where is My choice? From the moment you login the idea of choice is nothing more than an idea. Yes it is an MMO game. Heck even D&D restricted the idea of choice, yes you got to choose your character, but in the end, you followed a set of rules, and ultimately followed the DM’s master plan in order to complete the story.
This is a game set in a world of strife and everything that holds what little peace there is, is on the verge of breaking, yet there is no choice to try and strengthen those bonds. The game is not designed that way.
The best way to describe WoW is that it is like a reality tv show. Yes the contestants are our toons, and the game itself is the show. And each week we have a new challenge that gets us that much closer to the end of the game. But in sad realization there is no end to the game, just a concept of an end through end game content.
– We are all puppets to Blizzard jumping through hoops that they say we must jump through in order to move further within the game.
– We have no such thing as free will, except if you decide to cancel your subscription.
– You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake, you are just one of the cattle that moves in line hoping to get your turn in the raid.
Cat5e, I would have given anything to get a transcript of some of the hero class meetings. I wonder if they really did examine the morality of the deeds that the player must perform in order to proceed with the Deathknight.
Normally players get 54 levels of experiences with which to develop their own story and character. The problem here is that since one of the “features” of the Deathknight class is starting at level 55 Blizzard seems compelled condense 54 levels into a series of special quests that’s sole purpose is to bond the player with the class.
To me this is compounding one mistake with another mistake. There’s an old saying that goes like this: as the tree grows, so do the branches. In Blizzard’s zeal to make a non-heroic class “heroic” they are giving the player 54 free levels. So given this fact, then they proceed to inject a pre-written baskstory and transpose a disposition/alignment on to the player playing the class to make up for the 54 levels. To my knowledge this is the first time that any MMO company has ever tried this.
I think there will be a significant number of people who go through these quests will end up being shocked and appalled. It will be interesting to see the reaction of the public. No other class requires one to abandon any sense of morality or promote a sense of morality in order to proceed.
I think you may be right here. Perhaps Blizzard looks at the Deathknight as a way to shock the world and bring some attention to WoW which will be 4 years old by the time Lich King is released. It’s probably also the case that there’s a certain amount of hubris at Blizzard as well. I believe they feel they can do no wrong at this point.
Brilliant observations Michael! I think you’re really hit the nail on the head here. Choice is really an illusion in MMO’s at this stage in the game. Everytime a player kills Van Cleef suddenly they suddenly the new hero of Westfall (just like the millions of players before them were the “hero” of Westfall). The story for each and every player is predetermined if they play WoW the way it’s intended: via the quests.
I think you may have hit on a bigger issue here with regard to the idea of choice in MMO’s in general. While the morality of the Deathknight is questionable I feel the deeper problem of MMO’s is now exposed for all to see: there are very few meaningful choices available to the player to interact and shape the world they play in. To me this is what I’m craving in MMO’s and I hope that at some point these companies figure out a way to make this happen.
I think that many people are still missing the fundamental issue or skirting around it:
The issue is not that your character is a murderer or evil, for whatever reason, before being redeemed and gaining the capacity for choice. If the player were simply shown cut scenes of their character performing some heinous act, perhaps that could have the sort of story impact that the developers desire.
The issue, quite simply, is that it is not enough to know that your character was formerly evil (or at least, the puppet of some one who is irrevocably evil). You are *required* to participate in these virtual acts. While this does indeed drive home the idea of being a puppet (in this case a puppet of the developers rather than the fictional lich king) it seems like a very degrading way to go about it.
To me this has the emotional flavor of hazing. As a former service member, I do not find it the least bit surprising that most people do not object to the idea of torturing and killing innocents in a video game, as I have witnessed otherwise normal people commit violent acts of torture on their comrades as part of so called hazing rituals.
There is nothing to be gained by requiring players to act out acts of genocide and torture. This is a terrible path for Blizzard to follow.
Well, to add to what I wrote before. Where are all the concerns when you see linched bodies hanging by a noose on your way to Scarlet Mon? Where are the complaints and Concerns when you have to deliver someones head as proof that you killed them? Where are the complaints of people having to kill farmers in Southshore and collect their skulls? This is just a small list of what is currently in WoW. Nothing that is being implemented for the Deathknight, has not already been done by every single player in the game. It is all the same prepackaged tv dinner. If you look at it, Blizzard is not promoting torture, murder, and other vile deeds. The Players are the ones they get the game data from. So if it was ok for a quest to be a certain way before then why not now? Show me someone who has not already done one of these things in WoW, and I will show you either a liar, or someone who grinded to 70 by killing boars in the woods. Oh and if we want to get technical I suggest anyone who did the Boar killing go see a doctor, because that would be a good sign that the person is on their way to becoming a murderer, cruelty to animals is generally how it starts. Everyone can view things a certain way, but before people start their grand protests, look at what you are saying and the topic at hand, then get to the core of the issue, not whatever the flavor of the month is.
Did any of you do the Betrayal quests in EQ2? How quickly we forget.
I typed this out about 12 hours ago and have come back to it… I’ll leave what I originally wrote and then add some more. 🙂
ok. I’ve played through the dk starting area, so perhaps a bit of first hand experience can shed some light on this issue. And I will start by pointing out that Tobold blogged about it and he said it was the most fun he’s had in wow in months.
“The murder of innocent people who don’t fight back.”
The first time you go out with the intent of killing the scarlet people, they may suggest that they have children and to have mercy… you get whispers from The Lich King egging you on, in essence… telling you that they wouldn’t show mercy to undead scum like you… It’s a fairly early quest in the evolution of a DK.
A later quest has civilians/peasants cower in place when you come near them, and some even are affected by a ‘fear’ mechanic. You are required to kill 10 of them. Some of them will just let you cut them down, but a surprising number will drink a potion, enrage, turn red, grow bigger, and scream “DIE!” and other things at you and can be quite a handful.
“Torture of innocent people to extract information”
You use the weapons (they look like the Torturing Poker from Scarlet Monastery, but with a different name — fancy that) on the “soldier” style aggressive scarlets. You engage them in standard combat but use the special weapons. They mock you. As they die they say things like, “You’ll get nothing from me, and like it!” it’s governed by the random number generator, so one of them will say “stop, I give up!” and then tell you the information you’re looking for.
“murdering an unarmed friend”
*SPOILER*
It’s toward the end of the series of quests. It’s a TEST they’re giving you to make sure you’re one of them. They tell you it’s just someone of your RACE, but the npc RECOGNIZES you and tries to remind you of who you used to be, who you really are. The quest giver yells, ‘NAME, what is taking you so long in there?’ Your friend tells you that he’s dying anyway, to end it quickly for him so you don’t get killed yourself.
*spoiler over*
It’s emotionally charged and very moving. And I realized it had to be there, because it’s the seminal moment of breaking away.
Yes, the morality behind it is questionable, but I pillage Scarlet Monastery all the time and after Western Plaguelands, Hearthglen and Stratholme, I’ve developed a pretty severe grudge against the zealots of the Scarlet Crusade.
Perhaps we have all forgotten what the Scarlets are really like. In the first room of the Scarlet Monastery Graveyard is Inquisitor Vishas… “I’ll rip the secrets from your flesh!” He drops the Torturing Poker I referenced earlier. They have ‘forsaken’ strapped down to 4 tables in the room and are torturing them. As Alliance you miss out on what’s really going on there… Vorrel Sengutz has been tortured for weeks, and Vishas went so far as to take Vorrel’s wedding ring and give it to his own wife.
I am glad that this is being brought up and discussed fairly openly, however if you haven’t had the experience for yourself it can be tough to gauge what is going on and how you’d really feel about it in the context it is presented.
…
The more I think about it, the more it bothers me. I have to wonder how many of the participants in the discussion have actually SEEN the quests in question and gone through it themselves… Yes, using emotionally charged words and phrases will get people’s attention. And the responses on the forum thread you linked were childish at best.
I did not take issue with the presentation of the Death Knight, I felt that Blizzard handled it well and brought a section of the lore to life. I’ll never look at a scourge cauldron in wpl the same way! And it definitely left me wanting to get into Naxxramas again. 🙂
*sigh* Try to reserve judgment until you’ve seen it for yourself.
Michael, good points. Much of the trouble we see comes from the ingrained concept of “kill stuff to proceed” that has wound its way throughout gaming. I’d love a game world where the metric for progression is based on exploration itself, innovation, and creation, not destruction.
Micheal I think the difference here is that the player *must* torture and murder innocent people in order for them to proceed. All other quests in WoW are entirely optional. A player can simply choose to decline a quest which they do not agree with morally.
There are a few other distinctions that need to be made. Often the player is given a quest to kill someone and the target is hostile to you. So it’s kill or be killed. Also most of the quests involve the player plays the role of an officially sanctioned hit man or assassin. Players dispense “justice” by taking on the role of executioners in many cases at the bidding of questgiver NPC’s. While obviously shallow, at least the player is performing some kind of public good by vanquishing Hogger, Stalvan Mistmantle, etc. There is a sense that morally the player is doing something beneficial for the faction they are aligned with. On the other hand it’s hard to find any moral equivalency in going out and torturing and murdering innocent people.
It seems to me that Blizzard has crossed the line here and is venturing into questionable territory. You will notice that it’s impossible to attack or kill children NPC’s in this game. Thank goodness for that at least! Yet you can kill small animals including the cats in the Blood Elf starting areas.
You and Tesh have made some great points about the culture of killing that is such a big part of video games today. I think that video games largely act as a fantasy release for many people to be able to engage in activities that would land them in jail in the real world. Sure we can bake bread and craft in MMO’s but it seems that killing will always be with us. Hopefully MMO companies will be able to offer some alternatives to this. And as far as the Deathknight quests, some other to leave the control of the Lich King would be nice.
I agree with you. I think that an animated cutscene showing the Deathknight doing these bad things while in servitude to the Lich King would be enough of a backstory to get the player emotionally involved with the class. Each of the races get their own cutscene when you create a new character and it seems to work well.
I think you have made an outstanding analogy here Iconic. It really does seem like hazing to a player that finds this content repugnant: person must endure A to get admittance into organization B. The hazing argument gives another added dimension to this debate.
I completely agree. You really have to wonder if the people responsible for this at Blizzard have thought this completely through.
Point taken Jessica. My blog article was written based on a good faith interpretation of the original poster concerns at the Blizzard forums. The official Blizzard rep who posted in reply didn’t point out any inaccuracies in the OP’s post, so it’s safe to assume the facts the OP posted were essentially correct.
However I do agree there is no substitute for actually experiencing the content before one passes judgment. The problem is that not everyone can get in the beta — which is another debate in itself. 🙂
So based on what we know I think we’ve had a reasoned and good debate on the issue. I’ve really learned a lot from the comments here and hopefully via the discussion we’ve all been able to shed some light on some thought provoking issues facing MMO’s today.
Update: the original thread created by Orophino at the official WoW discussion forums has reached it’s maximum length. Therefore it’s essentially locked and no one can add to the discussion.
For what it’s worth, a similar discussion is ongoing on the beta forums (which are viewable by those outside of beta).
Update #2:
Having actually played the Deathknight starting quests now, the only part that flat out seems objectionable is the murdering of civilians who don’t fight back.
The “friend” is hurt and knows he is going to die soon anyway, and asks for a mercy killing after his speech, and the “torture” only happens against aggressive hostile soldiers. It’s also made pretty clear in one of the quests that the scarlet crusade is doing MUCH worse things to captured death knights.
Forcing a player to perform actions that are morally questionable is wrong.
I played the BETA. I did not like the quest either, so you know what i did? I DID NOT DO IT. I turned off the game.
I applaud Blizzard for introducing Death knights in this fashion, and I hope they don’t change it.
@Tom: Turning off the game is not a good solution, just as unsubscribing is not a reasonable solution either. Players should be given choices on how to proceed — Blizzard gives you no choice. You either go along with Arthas and do the quests or you are stuck forever i.e. you can never leave the DK starting zone. No other class has those kinds of harsh requirements.
It is that kind of inconsistency that troubles me. If all classes had to choose a moral alignment in order to play their class then I would have no problem with it at all.
Even when the player suddenly realizes that he’s been duped by Arthas and suddenly becomes one of the “good guys” there is no choice there as well. Players are mere actors following a script with no true choices at all. Blizzard took the easy way out and that’s hardly something that should be applauded.
I understand where you’re coming from, but it is not the same as the other classes simply for the fact that it’s a hero class. The class starts at level 55 which is unlike the other classes. It’s understandable that they are not allowed immediate access to the world without completing the story line quests.
Tom, just because the class is new to the game doesn’t mean that such constraints are necessary. That’s not a logical train of thought. Something that is unprecedented in the game (like an Orwellian “hero” class Death Knight) doesn’t require any particular approach. In fact, it’s quite the opposite; their introduction could be handled in any number of ways precisely because they are new to the game and the mechanics. A strict series of story quests runs counter to the freedom that the MMO genre typically offers.
Wolf, it does allow for a stronger story narrative, though. It would be perfectly at home in a JRPG, for example.
Of course, I’d argue that such isn’t really the point of either MMOs or western RPGs (here speaking of the term itself; Role Playing Game, rather than the eastern “Final Fantasy” concept of the same)… so it’s not necessarily the best design in this instance. Still, leading someone by the nose through what is essentially an extended intro phase IS an effective way of telling a story.
Whether or not I’d like the story (I definitely would not) is tangential. Whether or not such… linear storytelling is welcome in an MMO seems to me to be the bigger question, and whether or not the concept of a “hero class” warrants such a tethered narrative.
I gave up on WoW providing a real set of story/character choices a long time ago. Character creation and spec are the primary handles to fiddle with. I do find it unfulfilling, but WoW doesn’t really aim higher in that regard anywho. That a “hero” class would be more constrained and not less is baffling to me, though. It marks a step backwards in design to my jaundiced eye.
I think the real point where there is no choice is in the fact that you are forced to be in the Alliance or the Horde based on your race. And you can’t ever learn the other factions languages or have any meaningful role-play interaction with them. This is the point where I believe choices are being robbed from players who really want them.
As far as the Death Knight is concerned, it’s really different than the other classes because you didn’t get a choice in the matter. You were killed and brought back as a meat puppet to serve Arthas. You’re right when you say it isn’t so much about morality as it is about choices, but in this instance, I don’t think it’s Blizzard so much that is taking your choices away as it is the Lich King took your choice away in turning you into a Death Knight. Fortunately, you get that choice back at the end of the prologue quest, and from that point it is up to you. You get to decide who your character was in life and how the experience affected them into who they are today. So I guess I disagree with you because I think that the actual process of becoming a Death Knight is supposed to be more of a destiny thrust upon you rather than one you chose. But I agree with you about Blizzard taking choices away from players in general, especially with regards to cross-faction communication and role play.
The “friend” is hurt and knows he is going to die soon anyway, and asks for a mercy killing after his speech, and the “torture” only happens against aggressive hostile soldiers. It’s also made pretty clear in one of the quests that the scarlet crusade is doing MUCH worse things to captured death knights.
This is exactly right. The Scarlets are basically the same as the Death Knights, only they use the Light to justify their actions, which in my opinion makes them worse. At the point in the quest line where you realize Arthas was only using your character is moving. Reforming the Silver Hand under Fordring? Come on, talk about awesome.
Reading up on the lore behind all this and actually participating in these quests, instead of going on the vague word of someone else, will go a long way toward explaining what is going on.
Still the fact remains, the player has NO choice here — either he kills his friend and progresses or refuses to kill his friend and is stuck forever. That is not a choice at all. Instead Blizzard forces you to adopt a set of morals and values (that many find repugnant) in order to progress. Naturally, players who choose to create a Deathknight do so because they want to play a class to it’s fullest potential. I doubt many players will refuse to carry out these attrocities and leave their Deathknight in a holding pattern.
The last time I did these quests it was the innocent townsfolk who were under the protection of the Scarlet Crusade (by the way, the only organization protecting them and coming to their aid…where is the Alliance?) who were being tortured. Perhaps they changed the quest since I played it.
I still find the “transformation” of the Deathknights unconvincing and simplistic. The player never gets a choice to either decide to stay with the Lich King or join the Order of the Silver Hand.
I was in the beta and did these quests numerous times so I could experience the Deathknight quest line for myself.
The problem with evil is that when someone that argues ‘for it’ really sees it ‘first hand’ they instantly find morality very clear. An example: while playing warcraft someone breaks into your house and kills everyone in your family and you have to watch … don’t you say OMG! and I wish a “good” cop would save my family? Then it becomes clear that evil in any form is a bad thing. Wouldn’t you wish for a better moral decision from the killer? Moral decisions are clear as you become more wise. There is a moral barrier being crossed through this game. Some would not cross that barrier if it were not for this game.
What the realists want here is the sense that people will be allowed to make the decision on wether or not to be evil even once. Any one that says otherwise does not know what evil really is. This is, in fact, how it starts. The immaturity in the responses is unabashedly apparent when you yell “freedom of speech”, “but shut up”. The fact is that it is “just a game” until you force people to cross a line that is made by our society. Those that cross the line tend to get locked up. It is no surprise that in all the evil that goes on in prisons these days that many of these tough guys find god and change their ways.
We all have choices, everywhere in life. This game removed that for a new class. They could have told the story without forcing their hand and making us do these evil “acts”. All that we want is the choice to run around in a pretend world without having to do evil stuff. This is the kind of thing that can make aeon more popular. I am switching to aeon. I am making this a moral choice because they “have asked me to make this decision”.
If you actually follow the Death Knight story line through all those “evil” quests, you will in turn find yourself realizing your moral center, and thus breaking free from the Lich King. Considering the expansion has been out for a while, im not really going to worry about spoiling anything.
If you want to level up in the game at all, you are going to have to do morally questionable things, regardless of your class, race, and faction. Someone is always going to be an advisary, whether it be the rabid thistle bears who need to be “cleansed”, or the opposite faction in a battleground, or the dungeon boss that you need the head of because your leader commanded you so. Don’t do the quest, don’t do the killing, and see how far you go in the game. If your only their for role playing and hanging out and talking to people, then you don’t have to kill, or do any sort of morally objectionable action whatsoever…you get to talk to people.
Blizzard absolutly gives you a choice. Either you play the game, or you don’t. If you don’t like the content of the game, then you have the choice NOT to play it. Personally I find nothing morally objectionable about the fact that you are so called “forced” to do these quests, mostly because from a ethical standpoint, you can’t be held blameworthy for your actions because you are technically brainwashed and under complete control of the Lich King. So, dispite how horrible it is to be commiting those acts, you aren’t responsible for them as you are not the one who is able to decide one way or the other.
Is this blizzard taking the choice out of the game? No. You can’t have a game without some form of direction and goal orientation. You will always go from point A to point B to point C. And the fact that your first 5 levels are legitimate storyline for the feel of what your character is about, lets even call it character building, for your DK, well I dont see how that can really be an issue.
If it is,
then you probably shouldn’t be playing at all. How many quests are you going around murdering people in quests to get that next piece of loot. The fact that your torturing and murdering fictitious civilians, and friends in the process only serves to bring out the players moral center, and fully embrace their DK when they defect from the lich king.
No matter how far you try to avoid it, Wow is based off of a very indepth story line, that a lot of us enjoy.
And once again, you always have the choice…play or don’t play. At the end of the day, there is absolutly no difference between you murdering pretend civilians, and murdering another persons character, or the furblogs that give you reputation.
No matter how you look at it. I don’t think you can claim that Blizzard is promoting torture and murder with one single class. Its either all or nothing. Regardless of who the character is..paladin or deathknight or rogue, or priest…murder and torture is the name of the game. What you need to do to justify your imaginary killing of pixels is your own business. I personally hold true to the fact that its not real, and its just a game, and if someone has a problem with it..don’t play. Simple as that.
If you feel forced into not having a choice, then you really haven’t been paying attention. You never did. The fact that you can quest in one area or another…well, thats not actually choice. You still have to follow quest lines, you still have to subscribe to the lore and intended directions that the game runs on if you want to play it.
On the point that blizzard is marketing this products to kids…well, I think your making a strange assumption.
Blizzard rates World of Warcraft content a T, teen, blood and gore suggestive themes, and use of alcohol.
Its the parents job to say, “hey, maybe my 11 year old shouldn’t play”. Not Blizzards.
Public relations nightmare? no.
Unless some kid dresses up as a deathknight and murders their parents in the name of the Lich King…i think that they are safe.